joel_rosenberg ([info]joel_rosenberg) wrote,
@ 2008-11-10 08:20:00
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Nothing to see, move along now . . .
. . . it's just a guy being arrested for wearing a McCain t-shirt.  I hope that kind of thing will change.

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(Anonymous)
2008-11-10 02:29 pm UTC (link)
It will. Rethugs won't dare to show up in public anymore.

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[info]joel_rosenberg
2008-11-10 02:48 pm UTC (link)
There is that possibility.

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[info]huladavid
2008-11-10 07:37 pm UTC (link)
"Rethugs"? I don't know what that means.

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[info]joel_rosenberg
2008-11-10 07:41 pm UTC (link)
It's one of the charming terms used by some of our mutual acquaintances -- and others -- for Republicans.

A lot of local folks in the Democrat Party do it. :)

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[info]brbethke
2008-11-10 08:12 pm UTC (link)
I should think our Anonymous friend would want to be careful what he or she wishes for. History shows that when groups are deprived of the right to express themselves verbally, most member of the group shut up, but a small but significant portion choose to express themselves in dramatically attention-getting nonverbal ways.

Recent history also would also seem to indicate that when it comes to these dramatic but unpleasant nonverbal methods, extreme right-wingers tend to be far more effective than are extreme left-wingers.

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[info]joel_rosenberg
2008-11-10 08:15 pm UTC (link)
More generally, I think there's lots of folks who seem to find some fnords in the Bill of Rights, which apparently tell them that rights are only for folks and issues that they care about.

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[info]qob
2008-11-10 02:58 pm UTC (link)
Well, I checked youtube, and there is a longer version of the video out there, which still only finds the miscreant in mid conversation with the cops. There was probably a lot more going on there than meets the eye

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[info]fixnwrtr
2008-11-10 04:50 pm UTC (link)
Don't count on it.

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[info]ann_totusek
2008-11-10 06:30 pm UTC (link)
What it was was someone being deliberately stupid. There was a victory celebration going on there, and he showed up in that shirt just to be horse's posterior. Free speech wouldn't be the issue, creating a public nuisance would be. I can't tell from the video, but if the group had a permit for a gathering and had blocked off the street like a block party, I think someone who is being a nuisance to the group can indeed be carted off despite being on otherwise public property. For instance our local block party has had someone taken away for similar behavior, though it was not politically related. Had he cooperated and redirected as told to by the cops, I don't think he would have been arrested. I've seen similar behavior treated the same way at many other events.

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[info]joel_rosenberg
2008-11-10 06:40 pm UTC (link)
In a civilized society that respects individual rights, people do have the right to express dissent in public places.

We just had a lot of folks -- myself among them -- furious with the local authorities for suppressing dissent at the RNC, under much more ambiguous circumstances.

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[info]brbethke
2008-11-10 07:39 pm UTC (link)
I think someone who is being a nuisance to the group can indeed be carted off despite being on otherwise public property.

Wow. What an interesting take on free speech.

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[info]trebor1415
2008-11-10 08:54 pm UTC (link)
Being on dial up, I can't watch the vid.

You got a transcript? Or can you give me the gist of it?

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[info]joel_rosenberg
2008-11-10 09:13 pm UTC (link)
The gist: a guy shows up in Philly, while Obamamaniacs are dancing in the street, celebrating his victory. Guy is wearing a McCain-Palin t-shirt. Cops tell him to go away; he argues, and then tries to leave in the direction of his car. They then arrest him, after a bit of mild tuning up for both him and the photographer shooting the video.

Not a big deal, unless you believe in the First Amendment or something equally radical.

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[info]cakmpls
2008-11-11 03:43 pm UTC (link)
The gist: a guy shows up in Philly, while Obamamaniacs are dancing in the street, celebrating his victory. Guy is wearing a McCain-Palin t-shirt. Cops tell him to go away;

What I saw started at "Guy is wearing a McCain-Palin t-shirt. Cops tell him to go away." I didn't see anything that happened before that. Did you?

I find the line in the blog "And just like that, dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism, but rather a jailable offense." hilariously stupid; where has this person been for the past 40 years? "Just like that?" GMAFB.

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[info]joel_rosenberg
2008-11-11 03:49 pm UTC (link)
No, I didn't see anything in the video before the beginning of the video.

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[info]botanicavix
2008-11-11 05:07 pm UTC (link)
This is disgusting, and anti-American. I do hope the guy sues the police, and wins.
Of course, the ACLU is the most likely organization to support him and provide legal representation. Funny thing, that. Liberals will support the right of right-wing idiots to exercise their constitutional rights. Would the reverse happen?

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[info]joel_rosenberg
2008-11-11 05:12 pm UTC (link)
I strongly doubt that the ACLU will get involved, for a number of reasons. (It's pretty clearly established law that the guy is in the right and the cops are in the wrong, for one.)

As to liberals supporting the "right of right-wing idiots to exercise their constitutional rights", that turns out, rather a lot of the time, not to be the case, although it is the conventional wisdom on the left, just like it's the conventional wisdom that, say, the Bush intelligence policy was an artifact of Chimpy McHitler and his Rethugilicans and will immediately be reversed by the Obamadministration be maintained for the time being, as a pragmatic necessity</i>.

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[info]blueoxmn
2008-11-15 03:24 pm UTC (link)
I guess my spin is pretty centrist. Police should not repress genuine acts of expression that fall within the law. I have been over policed when attending peace rallies as a youth, and it sucks. I don't agree with those practices being used on anybody. There are existing laws regarding "Creating a Public Disturbance." that are valid and frequently enforced by police. I'm not an expert, but I'm thinking if you have a PERMIT to host a public event, anyone wishing to act counter to the interests of the group holding the event would likewise also require a permit to do so. NO PERMIT='s PUBLIC DISTURBANCE, and then the police are likely to act. We learned early on, no matter what you plan to do, get the proper permits.

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